Curtis Elder is a native Houstonian who was born and raised in Fifth Ward. He has lived in the Scenic Wood neighborhood for much of his life. Elder remembers evacuating before Hurricane Rita and being at work for several days during Hurricane Ike, when he worked for Harris County Commissioner El Franco Lee. During Harvey, Elder recalls the days of rain and that flood water came into his garage. He and his family weathered the storm at home, and Elder says that they had plenty of supplies, but that they could not leave their house for days. One difference between Ike and Harvey was that Elder did not have power for more than two weeks after Ike but during Harvey his house never lost power. Elder says that he did not apply for any kind of state or federal aid after the storm because he was not in need. He recalls the large amount of trash and debris in his yard after the flood water receded. Elder talks in depth about the Fifth Ward, focusing on his church, Old Pleasant Grove. The church burned down at one point, and Bill Clinton spoke at the church while campaigning for president. Elder lists famous names who came from the Fifth Ward, including Jennifer Holliday, Barbara Jordan, Mickey Leland. He discusses the bloody reputation of Fifth Ward and the Turkey Day Classic, an annual football game between Fifth Ward’s Wheatley High School and Third Ward’s Yates High School. Lastly, Elder mentions that even though he has not lived in Fifth Ward for some time, he still makes an effort to return to the community often.
Read on for the full transcript of the interview:
Jennifer Southerland: Alright. Today is April 11th, 2019. My name is Jennifer Southerland and I am conducting this interview for the Center of Public History at the University of Houston. Hello. Can you state your name and birth date?
Curtis Elder: Yeah. My name is Curtis Elder. Tenth month, eighth day, year of 1942.
JS: Okay. How long have you lived in Houston and where are you from originally?
CE: I was– been living in Houston for 76 years. I was born and raised in Houston.
JS: Okay, thank you. What is your experience with past tropical storms and hurricanes?
CE: Well I’ve been through a few of them. And none of them were good. You know, all of them was, you know, devastating. I know when Rita came I even left the city because everybody getting out of town. When Ike came I was working and I had to be on the job four days straight because I couldn’t come home because the freeways were shut down and wires was all over the streets so I had to stay there for four days.
JS: Oh wow. Where was home during Ike? And what’s the? Katrina?
CE: Huh?
JS: What was the first storm you said?
CE: Rita.
JS: Rita. Sor– I’m not from Houston, so I’m not super familiar. Where was your home during Hurricane Rita and Hurricane Ike?
CE: The same place I’m living now in Houston. In the Scenic Wood area. Everybody was evacuating, you know.
JS: And you were unable to evacuate each time?
CE: Well, I evacuated once, but during the Ike storm I was on the job because I couldn’t leave. But I–
JS; Oh, sorry.
CE: Yeah. But other than that– that’s about it for the storms, you know. I weathered through all of them, you know. One time my house got damaged, but, you know, we got it fixed and everything, but it’s still– it was still livable, but we did have water damage done.
JS: Where were you working during Ike?
CE: Harris County Precinct One for El Franco Lee.
JS: Okay, who’s El Franco Lee?
CE: He was the only black county commissioner in Houston in the state of Texas, and he has gone to glory now. So–
JS: Okay.
CE: But at the time, I was working for him.
JS: What type of work did you all do?
CE: Well, we had several. We did street maintenance. We did upkeep in the parks. We did roads. We did community service. What else did we do? We had a number of things we did.
JS: Okay. How did that– how did the projects you completed together compare to how the area was treated before El Franco Lee came to be the commissioner and when you helped?
CE: I can’t say how it looked before he became county commissioner. All I can speak for is after he got in office. Now he helped his office for over two and a half decades. He passed with a sudden heart attack.
JS: Do you know who took over after him?
CE: The one who took over after him, his name is Rodney Ellis. He’s also black. So it’s just still just one black county commissioner, but El Franco Lee was the first one and the best one.
JS: Did Rodney continue El Franco Lee’s projects and efforts in the community?
CE: He started off and then he changed up.
JS: How did he change?
CE: He implemented some of his own ideas, you know, but before he got to office he swore that was going to keep up the project that Franco had, but he– he didn’t do it. He changed a whole lotta stuff, you know.
JS: Okay.
CE: And he wasn’t as well-liked as Franco. Franco was a people a person. Rodney Ellis is not.
JS: Did you also work under Rodney or did you–
CE: No, I didn’t. Nah, I retired under Franco Lee. I worked for over 27 years. He and I are– were personal friends. Me and his family are still friends.
JS: Okay. Let’s see. What would you say was the most impactful that Franco Lee initiated in the community.
CE: Communication between the blacks and the whites. You know, it wasn’t no big I, little you. He treated everybody the same. Nobody ever ran against him in two decades so that says something within itself.
JS: Alright. Since no one ran against him, did he– did he still campaign or was it-?
CE: Well he didn’t have to campaign, he didn’t have nobody running against him.
JS: Okay.
CE: So, in two decades. Now his work stood out, you know, and so-
JS: Was his work ever challenged by other people in the city or-?
CE: Well they had a couple of– couple of times, but they faded out fast. I mean he had so many supporters, you know.
JS: Okay, cool. Alright. So, this is edging back to Harvey. When did you recognize that Harvey was going to be a serious weather event.
CE: When it kept raining. (laughter) Everybody, you know. They had no choice, you know. In fact, I couldn’t leave out of my driveway for four days. Water was all in my yard and everything, you know. I stay on the corner so water came from both– both ways, you know. In the front of my house and on the side of my house. And water came on up the driveway, it got in my garage, you know. So, I just– I was stuck.
JS: Did people come to your neighborhood to like possibly try to evacuate or-?
CE: Well some people had them big trucks, you know driving. But they was doing more harm than good because when they drove down the street the waves would go in people houses, you know. So– like I said, it was doing more harm than good. I mean the whole area was flooding, you know.
JS: Alright. So, you mentioned that you couldn’t leave during Harvey and you were stuck for four days, so how did you weather the storm?
CE: Well, I just weathered it. You know, we had food, you know. Nobody knew it would last that long. They didn’t know it was going to be as bad as it was. So, by the grace of God we made it, you know. We didn’t have to go nowhere because we couldn’t go nowhere. We didn’t have sickness or death in the family so all we did was sit at home and hope for the best.
JS: So, you were with your family during Harvey?
CE: Yeah, yeah. Just me and my wife. All my kids were grown and gone.
JS: Did– Were you expected to go to– well you retired.
CE: Yeah, I was retired. I’ve been retired 14 years.
JS: Okay, so you’ve been retired 14 years.
CE: Yeah.
JS: Alright, I was going to ask if you were expected to come into work–
CE: Oh no.
JS: While Harvey was–
CE: No.
JS: Happening, but– okay, so did you need assistance during the storm?
CE: It wasn’t an emergency. I didn’t apply for anything, you know. Only I wanted, you know, just to get out the house, you know, because I was just cooped up in there for four days. You know I wasn’t used to that.
JS: Yeah.
CE: But I didn’t need no food or nothing because we prepared for it.
JS: Okay, cool. Alright. What was the most significant moment of Harvey for you?
CE: It’s hard to say because, you know, it started raining and when it never stopped raining then we tried– got– we got worried then, so I can’t say a significant moment because the house didn’t leak or nothing, you know. Now if something would have happened drastically, I could say it, but everything slowly creeped up on us. You know like the water rose. Nothing we could do about that, you know, so we just stuck it out.
JS: Okay. How did the storm impact your family and your neighborhood?
CE: Well it was devastating because nobody could go nowhere. You know, everybody was in the same fix because, like I said, all the streets were flooded. You couldn’t go nowhere. And if you back out the driveway, the car will go in the water, you know. So– because our driveways are higher than the street, you know, so everybody just stayed in place. I live in a neighborhood where mostly senior citizens are, you know, and so we was pretty well-fixed.
JS: Did you have electricity during Harvey?
CE: Yeah, our hou– we had electricity. Yeah. The main thing about Harvey was the rain, you know. It wasn’t too much lightning and all and thunder. It was just raining, you know. Now Ike we didn’t have lights for 19 days. Now that’s a different storm now, you know.
JS: Well if you could tell me about that experience too, that’d be great.
CE: Well, like I said, I couldn’t leave work.
JS: Oh yeah, so were you stuck at work?
CE: I was stuck at work.
JS: For the entirety hi– Ike?
CE: Nah, nah, nah. For four days.
JS: For four days.
CE: They shut all the freeways down. You couldn’t go on the freeways, and we had– I had no way to get home. Now, all the lights was out. Like I said, we was out of lights for 19 days with Ike, you know. That was an amazing hurricane. You know we didn’t have all that water like we had with Harvey now, you know. You could move around with Ike if you could find a street or a tree wasn’t a door or the wires, you know, wasn’t down. But with Harvey everything was flooded. You couldn’t go nowhere.
JS: Okay. What role did the local, state, and federal governments play in relief efforts?
CE: Say that again.
JS: What role did the local, state, and federal governments play in relief efforts after Hurricane Harvey?
CE: I don’t even know. You know. They ain’t do nothing for me, you know, because we didn’t– we didn’t file for anything, you know. We wasn’t hurting for nothing.
JS: Okay. So, you knew how to file, you just didn’t feel the need to do.
CE: That’s right. Yeah, yeah. Those that really needed it, you know, let them do it. We didn’t need it, you know.
JS: Alright. What about local non-profits, charities, or religious institutions when it comes the relief efforts during the storm?
CE: We gave stuff over here at the church. We brought clothes up here and that’s– you know, we donated stuff and that was it, you know. We didn’t get nothing from the church. We brought to the church. See what I mean?
JS: Okay, so was this church– was it open during the storm to help people?
CE: No, not this one.
JS: Okay.
CE: Yeah.
JS: Alright. Can you take us through a day of the hurricane and the weeks afterward?
CE: I don’t– I don’t know how to put it. Like I said, all we could do was sit at home. You know? But the week after there was a cleanup effort because we had trash all in the yard. You know what I mean. But other than that, that’s all I can say, you know. We couldn’t do nothing. We couldn’t go nowhere. But after the– after the water had subsided. You know, trash and debris was in everybody’s yards, so we had to clean that up, and then we had to wait ’till somebody picked it up. Once we cleaned it up, you know, we piled it up, you know. Trash and everything came from all down the streets and everywhere, you know, so.
JS: Did– How long did it take for them to pick up the trash?
CE: Oh shoot. It took a while, you know. Because there was so much. It was everywhere, you know. I say at least two to three weeks or more, you know. They didn’t do it the next day now, you know, because it was so much, you know.
JS: Yeah. Okay. What impact do you think the relief efforts have for your community?
CE: Well, on a scale of one to ten?
JS: Yes.
CE: I’d say about a seven.
JS: Okay.
CE: Yeah. All I can say. On that, you know.
JS: Yeah. Okay. Now that we– now that it’s been more than year since the storm happened.
CE: Okay.
JS: What do you think the storm’s lasting impact has been on you and your neighborhood.
CE: I really can’t say. I’m just– like I said, all I could do during the storm was stay at home, you know. As for the impact in the neighborhood, I don’t think it did nothing. You know, everybody, like I said, is old. You know, we’re senior citizens, and we try to keep our place up.
JS: Okay.
CE: And so.
JS: Alright.
CE: That’s about it.
JS: Does your neighborhood face any special long-term challenges that are unique to the community?
CE: No.
JS: No?
CE: No.
JS: Okay. What about different then the situations facing other communities?
CE: Maybe so. You know, I can’t say because, you know, I don’t want to lie. I don’t know, you know.
JS: Well I appreciate that. Alright. So, you worked for the county commissioner for 26 years?
CE: Oh. Almost– almost 30 years.
JS: Almost 30 years?
CE: Yeah, I worked for the county. Harris County.
JS: Alright. So, what can you tell us about the history of the Fifth Ward?
CE: Oh. You ready?
JS: Yes, I’m ready.
CE: Alright. I was born– born in Fifth Ward. 1403 Pannell Street. Alright. I’m going to start with the churches okay? The church– the street I lived on was Pannell Street. It was one of the biggest churches in Fifth Ward. Every day, Monday through Monday, seven days a week, the organ would play at six o’ clock in the morning and six o’ clock in the evening. The lady who played the organ. She was the choir director at that church. Her name was Miss Overton. She played the song “Have Faith in God” every day. Not Monday through Friday, Monday through Monday. And– everybody in Fifth Ward knew because the organ had loud speakers outside, and everybody knew when it was six o’ clock, morning and evening, because she would play the organ. Alright. The biggest church in Fifth Ward was New Pleasant– I mean Old Pleasant Grove on Clark and Conti, right around the corner from where we are now. It was the only dome church. They built the church and made it like a dome. It was the first dome church in Houston. The pastor name was A. A. McCardell. Alright. It’s right around the corner from where we’re sitting right now. Alright. I joined the church where we’re sitting right now when I was nine years old. I’m 76 now. I’m still here. Since I’ve been here, it was four different pastors, ministers, at this church.
JS: At this church?
CE: Alright let me tell you now. When it– the church– at the same spot we’re sitting right now, the name of the church was New Pleasant Grove. Alright. The pastor was E.W. Whitfield. Alright? After he passed, we got another pastor. His name was O. L. Holliday. His daughter name is Jennifer Holliday. She sings right now. You might’ve heard of her. Anyway, she’s a professional singer. Alright. After O. L. Holliday, the church burnt down. So, in the same spot we sit now, we built another church which is one we in right now. Alright? The pastor was O. C. Johnson. Alright. This was the only church in Houston had four o’ clock service every Easter Sunday morning. Church started at four o’ clock in the morning. The church would be so full, they had the chairs down the middle of the aisle. We called it Easter Sunrise Service, four o’ clock in the morning, standing-room morning. This was the only church in Texas that had that service. Alright? During the same era, when Bill Clinton was running for president, he came and spoke at this particular church. Bill Clinton, he spoke at this church.
JS: Was it during an Easter service or just normal?
CE: No, no. It wasn’t during it. He was campaigning for the president then. Alright, when he won his election, he invited our pastor which was O. C. Johnson to the inauguration service. Alright. And so, that’s some of– some of the history of this church. I told you about the other church. It was the biggest church in Fifth Ward. Only thing I’m telling you about is Fifth Ward stuff. Alright?
JS: Okay.
CE: Alright. Now [indistinct]. In Fifth Ward, we had six elementary schools. If you want me to name, I can name them.
JS: I’d appreciate that.
CE: Alright, it was Bruce School, Atherton School, Crawford, Nat Q. Henderson, Henderson, and Dogan School. You got all that?
JS: Yes.
CE: Alright. We had one high school and one junior high school in Fifth Ward. Want to know the name of those?
JS: Yes.
CE: E. O. Smith was the junior high school which is still two blocks from here, the next block from where we are now, and Wheatley High School. Alright, those were the only high schools they had in Fifth Ward. We had one Catholic school. Name of that school was Our Mother Mercy. It’s still here. You got that?
JS: Yes.
CE: (laughter)
JS: Do you know why two schools were named after Henderson?
CE: One of the names was– one name was Nat Q. Henderson and the other was Henderson. Now I don’t know why it was two different– I guess because one name was– I don’t know, but I know one of ’em Nat Q. Henderson. Nat Q. Henderson is right next door to Finnigan Park now. Henderson is right down the street on Quitman and Jensen. There’s two different schools in two different locations.
JS: Do the schools– do all the schools you listed still stand? Are they still here?
CE: Every one of them still standing. Yeah. We still just have one high school in Fifth Ward and one junior high school in Fifth Ward. So, you got that?
JS: Yes.
CE: Alright, that seems strange don’t it?
JS: Yeah.
CE: Well, we had all these elementary schools, but one high school and one junior high school.
JS: Why do you think that is?
CE: I don’t know. It’s been like that ever since I’ve been here, and I’ve been here 76 years. (laughter)
JS: Did you go that junior high school and that high school?
CE: I went to junior high school, and then my parents moved to Kashmere Gardens and I went Kashmere High School. That’s not Fifth Ward. I’m just telling you about the Fifth Ward. Okay. Now let’s set this. The biggest grocery store in Fifth Ward was [indistinct]. It’s one block from here, right on the corner of Gregg and Lyons. It was the only big store in this area. They delivered groceries to your house. You could call and make groceries on the telephone, and they’d bring it to you. That was back in the day, you know, when we were young, you know. You got that?
JS: Yes:
CE: Alright. Right across the street from where we’re sitting now. It was a nightclub. Big nightclub where all of the blues singers used to come. Called the Club Matinee. It was a nightclub, beer joint. Our service in that church, every morning it started at seven. Every Sunday morning it started at 7:15 in the morning. Alright, we didn’t have– we’d church first and then Sunday school. Between church and Sunday school, we’d go eat breakfast over at the club. (laughter) Right next door to the club was a big hotel called Crystal White Hotel. That’s where all the big blues singers used to come, and they’d do the concerts. Alright. Now across the street from the club, the same side we’re on now, next door was a movie theater. They had three– they had four movies in Fifth Ward. They had the Deluxe Theater which is right next door. They had the lounge theater which is down the street. They had the Roxy Theater which is right down the street. And they had the Jensen Theater. Now all those was right here in Fifth Ward. You got that?
JS: Yes.
CE: And some of the great names that came out of Fifth Ward? George Foreman, the fighter, he was born and raised here. He lived right down the street on Schweikhardt Street. The reason why he started fighting, he didn’t want go to school. And his mother sent him to job corps, and he was fighting over there, and so his instructor said, “As much as you like to fight, you ought to fight for money.” And so that’s what he started doing, and so that’s how he started fighting. Then he’s a preacher also. He used to stand on the corner and preach all the time. So that’s one of the great things that came out of Fifth Ward. Another is Barbara Jordan, you heard of her?
JS: The first governor? Woman governor?
CE: She– yeah, she was a heck of a woman, you know. She’s come up right out of Fifth Ward. Well, Franco Lee, the one I worked for, he come out of Fifth Ward right down the street. He was the county commissioner. So those are some– alright, Mickey Leland, you ever heard of him?
JS: Yes.
CE: Well he lived right down the street there. He’s ought to Fifth Ward, you know. But he’s deceased too. Ah, let me see what else I can tell you about the Fifth Ward. Ah. Back in the day, they used to call this bloody fifth. Reason– because we used to fight so much over here. They fight and cut you. You know, they fight with knives and stuff. So, they started calling “Bloody Fifth.” But that’s a name– if you not an old person, you wouldn’t even know that, but that’s– that was this area’s nickname, the “Bloody Fifth.” And so, let me see what else I can tell you. Have I told you enough?
JS: I’m always happy to hear more.
CE: Let me see. What I’m– I’m just keeping everything in Fifth Ward, and I don’t want to go off and sit– we got– we got– well, Fifth Ward starts at the railroad track. Oh, you don’t know where that is.
JS: I’m not from Houston.
CE: Well anyway. Let me see, I guess that’s about all I can tell you right off, you know. I don’t want to tell you nothing bad about Fifth Ward, you know. Anyway, I’ve talked enough haven’t I?
JS: Well I have a few more questions if you don’t mind. So, you mentioned the biggest fifth world– ward, the dome church, is that still standing?
CE: Still standing.
JS: Is it still a dome?
CE: Yeah.
JS: Okay, and how did this church change after it was rebuilt after the fire.
CE: Well, we changed the name of the church.
JS: It– all the rooms were the same design? The pews? Everything?
CE: Let me see. Before the fire, this was New Pleasant Grove. Alright, some of the members went organized another church after the fire. Alright, and some of them stayed here and rebuilt this church. Alright. When we– when we rebuilt this church, we had to a name on it because the ones that left, they took the name with them. Alright. So that church is still standing too. This one is too, but this is Lyons Unity at [indistinct] Lyons Avenue, and we unified together to build this church, so we came up with the name Lyons Unity. And the president of the [indistinct] at Lyons Unity, his name was Arthur Elder, my dad. He was one of the organizers of this church. And what else did you want to ask me?
JS: So, it was a community effort to rebuild the church?
CE: Right.
JS: Okay.
CE: Right, right.
JS: Okay. Alright. What are some of the most significant changes to the Fifth Ward over time?
CE: We have a lotta new buildings now. Yeah. We’ve torn down a whole lotta old buildings and put new buildings up, you know. So that was a big deal right there, you know. Fact, all this in front of– right across the street is new. All that wasn’t here back in the day.
JS: When you add new buildings, are there concerns that you are losing some of the history of the Fifth Ward or is it more the people will remember what it was?
CE: Well the youngsters won’t remember. (laughter) You know, because they never knew. So, we are losing a lot of history of the Fifth Ward. Like I said, if you wasn’t born in the forties and the fifties, you won’t know a lot about it, you know. When were you born?
JS: 1996.
CE: You’s a baby.
JS: Okay. So, you mentioned that the Fifth Ward used to have the bloody fifth reputation. How has the reputation changed?
CE: Well, all the old people, they start dying out, so then– and then we don’t– they don’t fight anymore like they used to do. So, they– lotta folk don’t even call it that no more, you know. Some people call it “The Nickel” because it’s the Fifth Ward, you know. And the biggest– the biggest sport event that ever hit Fifth Ward was the Thanksgiving football game. It was an annual thing. We paraded down the street. This– other words, Fifth Ward played against Third Ward. You understand what I’m saying? And it was the Superbowl of Houston. Not just Fifth Ward. It was the Superbowl of Houston, but we was in Fifth Ward. You see what I mean? So that’s why they called it the Superbowl of Houston because Houston would play Yates. Yates is in Third Ward. You understand what I’m saying? Oh, Yates out there where you all going to school. Yeah, our school would play Yates. It was an annual thing. Every year the same time. Every Thanksgiving. No matter what. And people would come from miles around. They’d come from all out of state for this particular game. And it was held at Jefferson Stadium in Third Ward. Now the U of H got that stadium now. Let’s see, Jefferson Stadium was the only stadium blacks could play in. We wasn’t integrated during that time, you know.
JS: Did the third and Fifth Ward– did they benefit from the game or was it just Houston celebrating its football?
CE: It was an annual thing. You know I don’t know who got the money, you know, but it would sell-out standing-room only every year, rain or shine. People would dress up to that, you know. Like I said, it was like the Superbowl.
JS: So, I know, at least– born from Alabama– there are– whenever there’s big games there’s usually a big rivalry like Alabama versus Auburn. From the Turkey Day Classic–
CE: That’s what it was. Yeah.
JS: From the Turkey Day Classic, did a rivalry emerge between the third and Fifth Ward.
CE: No. Say that again.
JS: Did a rivalry– ri-val-ry emerge with–
CE: Oh yeah.
JS: Third and Fifth Ward?
CE: Yeah. Every year. Yeah. It was an annual thing, you know. Like I said, it was the Superbowl. I mean everybody in Fifth Ward knew about it, and I say 90% of the people in fifth, old and young, would go to the game because it was a rivalry. No matter how cold it was or how how it was. Never was hot because it’s always in November, you know. So, we’d have a big breakfast at Wheatley every Thanksgiving. We’d have a parade down all through Fifth Ward. They’d start at Wheatley High School, they go at Market, come down, come back up, Lyons Avenue, you know, it was a big thing.
JS: Okay. So, I think this will be my final question for now. What do you think it is about the Fifth Ward that has fostered such exceptional people like George Foreman, like Barbara Jordan, like Mickey Leland?
CE: All– it’s hard for me to say, you know. I’ll put it like this. They didn’t know they were going to be born in Fifth Ward. (laughter) I’m going to put it like that, you know, I’m not going lie. But– all I know, they came out of Fifth Ward, and they left a mark in Fifth Ward, you know. I don’t know [indistinct]. You ever heard of Joe Ligon?
JS: Sorry, could you repeat that?
CE: Have you ever heard of Joe Ligon? He’s a big gospel singer. He was. He passed away. In fact, he started his gospel career right here in Fifth Ward. Right next door to where James live right now in a [indistinct] home, you know.
JS: Okay. Would you say that community, the sense of community, is important to the Fifth Ward and to yourself as a member of it?
CE: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In fact, I got a sister. She lives in San Francisco but just in her home, you know. She has to come every so often. She went to Wheatley, you know. There’s no place like home. Basically, if you’ve got a bunch of good memories about them, you know. Just like right now, it ain’t 15 people at this whole church been here longer than me, so what that say?
JS: That you like it here?
CE: Yeah, well, this is home. This is my home church. And– I live on the other side of town, but I still come here, you know. I was born right down the street, but this is home, you know.
JS: Did you meet your wife in the Fifth Ward or was it outside of it?
CE: Out– it was outside of Fifth Ward, but it was in Houston though. See she’s not even from Houston, she’s from another place.
JS: Okay. What about your children? You say you make an effort to come to this church even though you don’t live near here, when you were raising your children, did you make an effort to bring them to this church too?
CE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JS: Okay.
CE: Yeah. As I’ve been– I’ve been going– I’ve been coming here for over 67 years. Like I said, I joined when I was 7. No I was nine because cause my mother passed when I was seven, and I’m 76 now. So how many years is that? (laughter)
JS: 67.
CE: See what I mean. So, you know, it’s just part of me, you know.
JS: So, would you say this church has had a big impact on your life?
CE: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. I love my church. You know, if I didn’t I wouldn’t come, don’t that make sense?
JS: Yeah.
CE: Yeah.
JS: Okay, well thank you. Do you– sorry I didn’t mean to interrupt.
CE: I didn’t say anything.
JS: Okay. It sounded like you were going to say something. Do you have anything else you’d like to add?
CE: No.
JS: Okay. Do you know anyone else that we should interview either about their experience with Hurricane Harvey or about the Fifth Ward?
CE: Not right off.
JS: Okay, well thank you so much.
CE: Okay, your recorder still on?
JS: Yeah, I’m about to say, “Thank you for your time and contributing to our project.” I really appreciate it and we appreciate it.
[end of interview]
(background noise)
CE: Is it off? Or you don’t know how to turn it off?
JS: I do not know how to turn it off. Just give me a second.
CE: Well, it don’t make a difference. We through anyway.
JS: Yes.
CE: Okay then. (chair sliding)
JS: Alright.
CE: How’d the interview go?
JS: It was good. I’m so sorry– I– okay. Let me-
[end of recording]