Carolyn Littleton and Shelia Whitfield are both native Houstonians who experienced flooding during Hurricane Harvey. Littleton and Whitfield, sisters, recall living through Hurricane Carla as children in 1961. Both women, throughout the interview, emphasize the importance of protecting meaningful items, such as photographs, after they lost many during Harvey.
Littlefield describes the idea of Houston Strong as a sense of being able to go on after a disaster and says that only in Houston do strangers open their houses during times of need. Neither Littleton nor Whitfield was staying at their home during the flooding, but both describe how they relied on neighbors to relay information about the flood damage. Littlefield says that the hardest thing about the storm was deciding not to return to her home after she decided not to pay for repairs a third time. Both women contend flooding is a common occurrence in Houston and mention that they experienced street flooding a few days prior to the interview. Finally, Littleton and Whitfield talk about how the citizens and the city of Houston responded to the storm.
Interviewee: Carolyn Littleton and Sheila Whitfield
Interview Date: October 11, 2018
Interview Location: Smith Location
Interviewer: Nikki De Los Reyes
INTERVIEWER: My name is Nikki De Los Reyes. Today is October 11, 2018, and I am here today at the Smith Neighborhood Library with Carolyn Littleton and Sheila Whitfield as a part of the University of Houston Center for Public History’s Resilient Houston: Documenting Hurricane Harvey project. So today we will be talking a little bit about Carolyn and Sheila’s experience as a Hurricane Harvey survivor.
NDLR: So are you guys ready?
NDLR: If I could just have you each state your name.
CL: I’m Carolyn Littleton.
SW: I’m Sheila Whitfield.
NDLR: And if you could, just tell me a little bit about yourself, Carolyn.
CL: Okay, I am a retired LVN. Harvey retired me. I’ve been in Houston all my life, 60-plus years. And this is the third flooding [0:01:00] I’ve been through. The first one, they told me it was a hundred-year flood zone. It was never going to happen again, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Never believe them, because two years later, it came again. And then 10 years later, it came again. So Harvey came and swooped me out.
NDLR: Thank you. And what about you, Sheila?
SW: My name is Sheila Whitfield, and I am a native Houstonian. And that’s 60 — well, that’s more than 21. So previously, I worked. I would presume you would call it administrative part of jobs. And the first flood was so devastating, because we had to literally walk from [unclear, 0:02:00] [0:02:00] and Fleming down to I-10 and [unclear, 0:02:07] to a motel. And the people were just taking people in, because it was like four and five family members to each room. The second flood did us a little better but devastated us in that it took away the house, all the clothes, all the shoes, everything. And some people said, “Wash the things and wear them,” but some people said, “Throw everything away.” So we erred on the side of throwing everything away. So we threw everything away. And people were kind. Church members, other people we knew, didn’t mind helping out — so met new friends [0:03:00] — let you know the people that love you, truly love you. And so the storm was bad, but it was a blessing to let you know that in the times of trouble, people in Houston will get together and help you. In her case, the engineers from the Marines came and gutted her house out worked tirelessly for like two days. And we bought them food, and that was it. They really didn’t even want that, but we just, you know, felt that it would be the thing to do. So Houston is a great place, and people are always willing to help you. And I’m willing to help also, because I’m a native Houstonian. But at this time, it was that I needed help this time.
NDLR: You are sisters, so did you grow up living together in the same home here in Houston?
SW: Yes, right here over by [0:04:00] the University of Houston on Reeves Street. We grew up there.
NDLR: Can you tell me more about growing up in Houston just as children and how that was living right in the middle of the city? How was that for you?
CL: We lived — we lived through Carla, which was a major hurricane. And we went from our house to the [unclear, 0:04:28] home, which was a brick building and sheltered in there. Because they said, you know, to get around more steady environment. And that was in ’60-something. You know, so Houston is known to have they flooding and they little weather spats. And God has been good. He’s kept us through all of them, you know. It’s been help [0:05:00] from outsiders and insiders and just people that I didn’t even know. They said, “Oh, I got this. Take this. You know, I have an old bed. Take that,” you know. And even though you lose everything, you don’t lose everything. You lose possessions. But most of them can be replaced. The only thing I hate is losing so many valuable pictures. Because I didn’t expect for it flood that high, so things that was in my drawer — in my dresser drawer —
SW: – were lost.
CL: They was — I mean, it was like up high, but the water moves stuff like it wants to, you know. And so subsequently, if you have pictures, you going to have find somewhere safe to put them [0:06:00].
SW: To store them, uh-huh.
CL: Yeah, somewhere safe to store them. You can’t just leave them in a high place. You got to put them in something.
SW: And a lot of the pictures were pictures of the children when they were really young, Christmas and Thanksgiving and birthdays. It was really the hardest part of losing everything.
NDLR: Were those pictures of your children?
SW: Of mine. She doesn’t have any. But it was of nephews and nieces and –
CL: Childhood photos.
SW: – people that we been knowing forever. And I like to expound on our neighborhood where we lived. Where we lived, our house was the house were all the children came. Everybody was welcome, and my mom could cook. So it was just [unclear, 0:06:52]. It was five of us, so it was always somebody to play with, somebody to be [0:07:00] a confidant, somebody to be a helpmate. And I really loved growing up in Houston. I really loved it. I think it’s a place you might want to consider raising a family.
NDLR: So let me ask you this. I don’t know if you are aware of the saying during the storm, but it was Houston Strong. A lot of people were saying we are Houston Strong. What does that saying mean to you guys since you are born and raised in Houston? What does Houston Strong mean to you personally, Carolyn?
CL: For me, Houston Strong is that no matter what goes on, you can survive. I’ve been in — I’ve been with people that says that where they’re from, if it had flooded there, nobody was going to take them in, you know. A friend of mine, she’s from [0:08:00] Arkansas. She said when the twister or tornado come through there, it’s like, “Oh, your house gone.” They don’t say, “Come on over.” And you know, she was — she was here in Houston when the flooding happened and people was opening up their doors to her, “Come on over here, girl. You don’t need to be down by yourself.” And she was like — you know, she was surprised. And that’s one that people never mind saying, “Come on over.” You know, the first time we flooded, my neighbor across the way, she’s even shorter than me. But my nephew, he’s 6-plus. He picked both of us out of the floodwater, because the water was really just —
SW: Like up to here on me. And she’s shorter than I am.
CL: You know, so he put — he picked us both up, my neighbor and I, and took us down to the freeway. And she was like [0:09:00], “Oh, I’m so glad y’all didn’t leave me.” I said, “Why would we leave you?” You know? And they didn’t send boats and stuff out in our neighborhood, because the front half of the neighborhood didn’t flood. So people see it from the freeway. That wasn’t flooded, but when you come on up past the freeway, that area was flooded. You know, from my house back, it flooded.
SW: And it was between the San Jacinto River and the ship channel. So you can imagine the water was like coming down out of the Conroe dam. And it was just nothing but the front part was not flooded. The other sides were all flooded.
CL: Yeah, East Houston took a — took a great hit. I mean, you know, if — what was that —
CL: The freeway? [0:10:00] 610, you saw how those 18-wheelers and everything was flooded. That’s just how deep the water was, you know. It was like deep. And it was like — but once we made it up to the front of the subdivision, it was — people houses was intact and everything, but past the bayou on back, it was flooded, you know. Houston is strange how the floodings happen, you know. But it flooded half the neighborhood. And the other half came out scot free.
NDLR: In the days leading up to Harvey, were you living in the same home at this point?
NDLR: And what did the house look like for you when you turned on the news and you saw Hurricane Harvey was coming? What was going on in your mind? Did you prepare?
SW: Well, she had had a bad accident [0:11:00]. And she was in the hospital. And I was praying and thanking God that she was in the hospital, because I didn’t have to worry about her being okay. So my daughter took me, my grandbabies, and her husband. And we left and went to Dallas. So when we got back, her house didn’t flood at all. But her house did. And we had decorated it pretty for her homecoming. And we were unfortunate. We didn’t take pictures. We should have. But I think it all was a blessing, because it really let you know who’s there for you. You ever have to really go through something and a person that you don’t have any hope of ever returning that favor to, and they turn around and be kind to you? That lets you know Houston Strong, because the people that come here are strong in their — in their hearts to help one another [0:12:00]. They’re strong in their hearts to help one another.
NDLR: That’s good. You were in the hospital when Hurricane Harvey actually hit Houston?
CL: Yes, I was — I left home Wednesday. And I think Harvey hit that Thursday or that Friday. And I was in the hospital for a month, so I missed it all. And then when I went back — that’s why they told me not to keep anything, because it had been closed up for a month. Mold and mildew, they say even though you don’t see it, it’s there.
SW: It’s there.
CL: And so we had to open up the windows and everything. And we tried to, you know, do the repairs and stuff. But it had gotten — I came back home to check it.
SW: Oh, you know, I’m sorry. I called them the Marines, but they are [0:13:00] the Army Corp of Engineers. I’m sorry. I called them the wrong name. Okay, go on.
CL: I came back home to help clean out the stuff. And I got [unclear, 0:13:13] infection from somewhere. I don’t know where. I ended up having to go back to the doctor for that. And the man said, “No, you can’t go back in the house.” He said, “You don’t see the mold, but it’s there.” He said, “Leave your house. Let somebody else take care of it.” And you know how you be thinking, “Yeah, right, I’ll wear a mask and stuff.” But it knocked me on my butt. The few times I went back against better judgement just to see what they was doing with — you know, what could I do to help or to just check on the progress, it was like it was worse. So I might as well stay out until they finish. So then they [0:14:00] — I can’t think of the name of the place, Hands — All Hands.
SW: Hands Across?
CL: No, All Hands. It was a company called All Hands. And they came out, and they helped with the tearing down of the walls and the stuff.
SW: For pizza.
CL: I mean, but everybody just pitched in.
SW: Oh, tell them about the bees — a beehive. I’m talking about a beehive from that end of the door in the wall all the way up — nothing but dripping honey bees. Oh, my.
CL: So it was a blessing that they found all this — you know, the storm brought all this to the forefront [0:15:00]. And even though I end up losing my house, it was a blessing. I met new people. I done new things, and now I’m moving on.
NDLR: Since both of you were out of your homes during Harvey, whenever you were away and you were hearing about the storm, did you think that your house would be impacted?
CL: No, because my neighbor said it was okay. And then I had somebody to drive by, and they said it was no water. You know, I sent somebody by there, and they said it was no water. But the thing was, they didn’t come until Monday or Tuesday. By then the water had gone done.
SW: It receded.
CL: Yeah, but had they gone out there Thursday or Friday — but nobody come get out there Thursday or Friday, because 610 was flooded. And you know, I-10 [0:16:00], they wasn’t doing too much traffic on I-10. So when they got out there — that Monday when they opened the freeways back up, they said, “No.” Well, they was looking from the outside in, you know. “It looks okay. It’s no water in your yard or nothing like that.” But then when we sent somebody with a key into the house, they said, “Well, water got in.”
SW: Everything was all messed up.
CL: They said, “Water got in.” Then they — but they didn’t tell me until I got out the hospital that the water got in.
SW: We didn’t want to worry her.
CL: So it was like —
NDLR: So when you did find out that your house was flooded or when you first arrived at your house since being flooded, what were some of the thoughts that were going through your head when you saw your house for the first time since the flood?
CL: That maybe I can salvage it. You know, I’m thinking, “Maybe I can salvage it.” And I was going from room to room seeing how high the water got. And like [0:17:00] in the bedroom, it hadn’t gotten on the mattress. And it was — it hadn’t got on the mattress, but it was on the box spring. It had gotten up to the box spring. So I’m like, “Well, we could probably take this mattress.” And my brother said, “No.” I was like, “Okay, let’s go to this room.” And you know how you be trying to save whatever you can? He said, “No, because it got into the drawers. The drawers won’t open.” He said, “Leave that alone,” because I was in the second bedroom trying to salvage a dresser. And then the TVs didn’t get wet, because they was up on the shelves. So that was a good thing. And my plugs had been moved up, so the plugs didn’t get wet. Because they had gotten moved up [0:18:00] from the first flood.
SW: And we saved the family portrait of mom.
CL: Oh, yeah. That one was up in the closet. I hadn’t never taken that out the closet, so that one was saved.
SW: That was the last picture of mom that we had.
CL: Which was good, because I hadn’t put it back down. Because had I put it down on the table, it would have been washed away with the others. So it was like — it was up there on the shelf.
NDLR: So what would you say would be the most important thing to you to save if you could? Or in the case of a future flood, what’s the thing that you will make sure that you bring?
SW: The pictures.
CL: Yeah, pictures. In fact, I have the pictures downloaded on a computer disk, so I won’t have to worry. Well, not worry, but then I can always have the disk. You know, because like now I download pictures to a disk. And you can [0:19:00] keep your disks, you know. And so I’m thinking that’s something to consider for all pictures, you know. When I take them, to download them to a disk instead of trying to keep copies like you normally keep.
NDLR: For you, Sheila, since you were in Dallas, when you came back, what was that like for you? Or did it take a while for you to get back since roads were closed?
SW: It took me a while to get back. My son-in-law drives a truck normally. And so he knew the back ways to come and go and whatever, and we were going down the freeway the wrong way, but the police were very kind. They allowed the people to go against the grain and go that way and get on 99 Grand Parkway. And we went around and around until we got to Dallas, and it was blue skies. And [0:20:00] the lady took us in and treated us like kings and queens. She wasn’t a relative, but she’s been in the family a long time. And so really, it turned out to be a vacation — a mini-vacation. As long as she was okay — she was in the hospital and I knew that Hermann wasn’t hardly going to blow over. So that’s how it was good.
NDLR: Were you communicating with each other?
SW: Oh, of course.
NDLR: How was that?
SW: Now, you know I called her.
CL: It was like, “Is it raining?” I mean, you know, “Did y’all make it okay?” “Yeah, we made it.” “So anybody to check on the house?” “Girl, don’t worry about that house. That house will be okay. We’ll check it when we get back.” You know, and that’s the way you be thinking. Oh, it’s be okay. You know, because my neighbor hadn’t called and said she flooded, so I figure that, “Oh, it’s okay.” You know, and [0:21:00] so she didn’t call, because she had left town. So when she got back, she was flooded. And I didn’t know she had left town, and she said, “Oh, I didn’t tell you.” I said, “No.” So she had gone to Dallas to visit her daughter — not because of the storm, but it was just she was going up there. And so it was like —
SW: It was like the end of the summer — you know, like right before people go back to work and school and everything.
NDLR: Let me ask this question. What was the most difficult experience about Harvey in general for each of you separately? But what would have been the most difficult? Looking back now that it’s been about year, what would you say was the hardest thing about just everything related to Harvey?
CL: Deciding to give the house up, because it had flooded three times [0:22:00]. And that was like, “Y’all told me the first time this was once in a hundred year.” Then the second time, they said, “Oh, it’s not going to happen again. We’ve done drainage, and we’ve done –” You know, they widened the bayou. They did this. They did that. It didn’t do nothing for the subdivision. So it was like, okay, I kind of made up my mind — paying for this house four times, because the house was paid off. And then I would have to have to rebuild up again. And so that’s like paying for another new house, you know. So I said, “No, I’m going through — I’m not going to go do that again. I’m getting too old for that.” You know, had I been younger, then, yeah, I might have — would have considered it. But I’m 60-plus, and to have to rebuild again — and that would have been [0:23:00] paying for that house four times, you know. And it was just — just coming to that decision, you need to leave. And I prayed on it, prayed on it. I said, “Lord, am I supposed to keep this house? Because you know, just — don’t let it sell if I — if I need to keep it,” you know. And it was like all kinds of crazy stuff I was thinking. I was like — but that was the hardest decision — to go on and sell the house, because I just didn’t feel like paying for it a fourth time. And that’s — had it been my first flood then I probably would still be there, but it was like, no.
NDLR: I have two questions. One, how long had you been in that specific house [0:24:00]?
CL: I think maybe 22, 23 years.
NDLR: And you’d been flooded three times?
NDLR: Also, in that time that your house was being rebuilt, where did you go? Where were you living in the meantime?
CL: Okay, the first time — with Harvey, where did I go?
NDLR: With Harvey, yes.
CL: With Harvey, I went to stay with my brother.
SW: Which is closer to the medical center. She had to be back and forth to the doctor, you know.
CL: Yeah, I went out to his house and stayed with him.
SW: And I was the chauffeur. I took her to the appointments and everything like that. Because she wasn’t allowed to drive.
NDLR: Oh, okay. So in the hospital, did they prepare at all? Did you get [0:25:00] to see any of that in the hospital? Or the electricity never went out?
CL: In the hospital, they had — what did they call them? They was short-staffed, because people couldn’t get in and out. Because you know, flooding was all over Houston. So the doctors and the nurses that was there, they had to stay. And they was on for 10 hours, and they slept for — they found them a room in the place — in the hospital to stay. But the only problems that they seemed to have had was just getting staff in, but it didn’t affect the care that they gave. Because they had —
SW: They were real nice.
CL: – the people that was there stayed, you know. And they stayed, and they did whatever they need to have done. And [0:26:00] I’m thinking that they said I wasn’t there in the —
SW: When you were in the ICU?
CL: They didn’t have a flood in that — in the hospital area that I was.
SW: Oh, yeah, no, nuh-uh.
CL: You know, so they really did hold up real good. But just they staff was flooded and you know —
SW: – couldn’t get out — couldn’t leave home — couldn’t get to work.
CL: – couldn’t get in and out. But they handled it real well. They didn’t have no shortage — no outage or anything. They was more prepared they said for the flooding, because they closed the doors — you know, the medical center, they have these gates and stuff. They [0:27:00] said they kept them closed. And they didn’t receive any of the flooding that, you know, hit most of the Houston area, which was a blessing. Somebody thought ahead.
NDLR: For you, Ms. Sheila, what would you say would be the most difficult thing for you?
SW: Well, it was difficult, because she was really, really sick. And it was difficult, because we had lived there and had so many happy memories. Because we’re a pretty close family. And I thought back about my dad laying there when he took sick one time. And I had to learn how to do his sugar intake and make his breakfast. And I was just thinking about the bittersweet memories, the happy times [0:28:00], the Christmases, the Thanksgivings, the way I couldn’t cook and people would eat it anyway — just you know, the normal things you think about with a family. But we all came through alive. And nobody was anywhere where they were in danger, so we — so we were okay.
NDLR: Now that we’ve had a few months to deal with Harvey and now looking back, what would you say are some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned since then? And not just Harvey, but with the past storms in Houston and flooding in general, about everything that’s involved with it, what would you say is a big takeaway or lesson for you?
SW: For me, the main thing is — like my daughter tell me, “Pack my medicine first.”
CL: [0:29:00] Never drive in water. I don’t care what — the car before you might make it through. But don’t you drive in it, you know. I wasn’t driving with Harvey, but with Alicia, I was driving. And I was at work, and they was trying to convince me to stay at work with Alicia. And I said, “No, it’s not raining on my side of town,” which it wasn’t. So I made it from work to home, parked in my driveway. I woke up, water on my bed. And I’m like, “What’s this? Somebody got some –” You know you wake up. I said, “Somebody got some water?” You know, so I’m getting out of bed, and water is — and I was like, “Ahh, it’s water in here.” And she come like, “What you talking about?” I said, “It’s water in our house [0:30:00].” And so I was like — you know, and I had drove home. And it was — it was dry. I mean, it was dry when I drove home. And so I’m like — had I stayed at work, my car would have been saved. My house would have gotten flooded, but my car would be saved. Because it was in the garage at work. You know, but when I drove home, I parked in the danger zone and didn’t know it. So never drive when it’s raining. Stay where you are.
SW: And always pack your medicine.
CL: Stay wherever you are. If you out the water, stay out the water, you know, because Houston floods with the least bit of — I mean, the streets — you can go down it, and then you come back. It’s flooded, you know. Like the other day when we went to that church.
SW: Oh, my goodness. What about the day we went over by the bank and couldn’t get back [0:31:00]?
CL: I mean, because —
SW: We trying to get to Chick-fil-A.
CL: It was — it was not raining hard, but —
CL: Yeah, it wasn’t raining hard. So we was going, and we made it over there. And then the street when we was trying come back. I was like — I was like, “Houston is strange like that.” The water — I mean, the street flooded just that quick. We made it to the place — enjoying our little Chick-fil-A. And we was on our way back, and it was like water. So never drive, you know. Take heed. Houston is not good for rain, you know. Any kind of rain floods an area. And [0:32:00] this was Gulf Freeway. And I think it’s because all that construction that they’re doing. It’s making it flood easy. And that didn’t used to flood, you know. It was like —
SW: Just going down on that other side, now, that would flood. Remember where those people drowned?
CL: Yeah, but that was up under the —
SW: Yeah, yeah.
CL: That was up under the thing.
NDLR: So how do you think that the City of Houston handled Harvey or handled past storms? Do you think they’re increasingly becoming more prepared or handling situations better or not?
CL: I think they did a darn good job on Harvey, but you know what? Who did it? The citizens. I’m not saying the city didn’t do anything, but it was individual citizens that opened up their doors — Gallery Furniture, [0:33:00] —
SW: Hilton Furniture.
CL: I mean, it was like lots of individual people bursting forth. Churches opened up their doors, letting people come in. The city, did they open up any libraries?
NDLR: They opened like the mass shelters, like NRG and George R. Brown and those kinds of places. But I do agree with a lot of individuals.
CL: It was so many individual people —
SW: And don’t forget J.J. Watt.
CL: Yeah, you know, it was like individuals coming together to help. And that’s what make Houston Strong — that they’re willing to help each other, you know. Yeah, I mean, we don’t wait on the government to come and rescue us, you know. It’s like they doing the best they can, but it’s — they have to fill out paperwork. They got to — they got to dot — I mean, they do [0:34:00]. They will not give you $10. They wouldn’t even give you a $10 voucher without having you fill out a whole 10-page deal for a $10 voucher. $10 is not going to bust the city. I mean, it might —
SW: If they give enough of them away, it would.
CL: But they — they spent $50 on paperwork for one $10, which makes no sense.
NDLR: So you would say more of the help came from the people?
NDLR: Citizen of Houston?
CL: Yeah, for me.
NDLR: Right, right.
CL: For me, that’s the way I saw it. Thank God I didn’t have to go to George R. Brown or — I had family that took me in, but the people that did go there — excuse me. They’ve went through lots of red tape [0:35:00] they say. I don’t know, because I didn’t go. But they said there was lots of red tape getting situated, so it’s like maybe they could find a better way of streamlining — I mean, because you know you have mass flooding, so you need to try and think of a system that you can get people situated without the extra drama. But I don’t know how you can do it. But hey, since I don’t have a solution, I shouldn’t bring up the problem. That’s what my daddy say, “Do you have a solution for it?” “Well, I can tell you what shouldn’t go, but I can’t tell you how to fix it.” So it’s like the city did its best.
NDLR: [0:36:00] Do you have anything else that you would like to share outside of what you’ve already talked about today? Any personal experience or just any other comments?
CL: No, Harvey was just a wake-up just like Michael’s going to be wake-up for lots of people. You can’t — you can’t always shelter in place. And incident with Harvey out there in my neighborhood, the guy and his mother was back in the house checking the house. And he plugged something in and got electrocuted. You got to be careful when you messing with — with the wire — you know, the house is damp. You don’t know if the plugs are —
CL: – wet or not. So you can’t plug in stuff. And that’s — that’s a lesson that we all have to [0:37:00] learn, you know. Like my house, I had moved the plugs up, so they didn’t get wet. But I guess his plugs was still low enough that they had gotten wet. And he plugged in something and got electrocuted. And his mother tried to save him, and she died, you know. So it was like a domino effect, because you don’t think — you don’t grab him. You take a broom or something and break the connection. You don’t physically grab the person, because the electricity goes from them to you. You know, you have to use some kind of wood or something to break the connection, you know. But that was something I learned from the Harvey — is that you don’t mess with electricity. You know, if you are not sure the stuff is dry [0:38:00], leave it alone. Let the electrician come in and check everything. You know, you can’t plug in, can’t turn on, and all of that in a wet house.
NDLR: Sheila, is there anything else you’d like to share?
SW: No, I think I said just about everything I wanted to say. I just want to give thanks to people that didn’t have to but did.
CL: Came out of their comfort zone to help.
SW: Uh-huh. And then maybe next time, it will be my opportunity to help.
NDLR: Well, thank you so much, Ms. Sheila and Ms. Carolyn, for sharing your stories. Our hope with these interviews and with these oral histories is that we can pass down your stories. And we can have people who maybe weren’t even born during Hurricane Harvey, and they can look back and hear and see your story. So we just thank you so much for being so willing [0:39:00] to share with me what happened. So I appreciate it very much.
CL: You’re welcome. Thank you.
SW: Thank you.
NDLR: Thank you.
CL: Good luck on your paper.
NDLR: So nice to meet you. Thank you so much.
CL: Thank you. Good luck on your paper.
SW: Take care. [0:39:16]